Art and Culture of a Debased Society

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Art and Culture of a Debased Society
India Forum: Comments, Opinion - Information Resource

News Summary: In India recently a debate was created by a student in M.S.University in Baroda drawing offensive paintings and his resultant expulsions by the university. The so-called English speaking intellectuals class of India is supporting the student as obvious from their publications in various magazines and newspapers. Their support is rest on the concept of the freedom of expression. The question should be raised what really makes people think that offensive and disgusting type of paintings can be an .....read more in: Art and Culture of a Debased Society

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Total 27 Comments

These comments are about: Art and Culture of a Debased Society

Srno	Comment on Current Thread
27	Om Y. Gosh on Monday, August 06, 2007 : VM: You are confused about what is legal vs. what is culturally acceptable. While you are entirely correct in that we don"t need to copy other cultures, bear in mind that the Hindu culture was far more tolerant of sexuality until the arrival of the Muslim and European invaders. Whose culture are you going to protect? The Hindu culture? The Islamic culture? What if the two are in direct conflict? I believe we should protect ALL the cultures simply by allowing people to exercise their right to freedom of speech as long as the action is (a) legal and (b) not violent or inciting violence. The moment you make someone shut up because of "blasphemy" or "indecency" outside of the actual legal definition, you are endangering all the cultures. Oh well, enough of this thread. I don"t think anyone is going to change their respective opinions on the issue of the rule of law vs. rule of the loudest and the most violent or the most numerous. Good luck.
26	V.Mironi on Saturday, August 04, 2007 : Law is what you define as laws. What is lawful in Saudi Arabia cannot be legal in USA. Law depends on the society and its culture. Our culture is different from the culture of the American/British/European/Saudis. Thus, we must have laws to protect our culture. It is perhaps lawful to have sex openly in front of hundreds of tourists, as I have seen in Pisa but even kissing in public is unlawful in India, Korea, Arab countries. It is perfectly lawful for women to walk naked on the streets of Germany, but even in Britain it is ilegal. It is common in Britain and USA for two men to be married, should we allow that in India? Thus, Britain or USA may think used condom, sperms on a dirty bed or dried human excrements are objects of art, we in India do not think so. We need to think what is decent and what is indecent. We do not have to copy US/British culture.
25	Om Y. Gosh on Friday, August 03, 2007 : Firstly, I am not advocating provoking anyone. Just trying to give an example. Radically different sensibilities make it extremely difficult if not impossible to find common ground while preserving individual freedom of speech. And it is my personal belief that when encountered with such a situation, we should err on the side of freedom. If an action is within the bounds of law but happens to be "offensive" to ANY person or group, that action should not only be legal, but must be protected by law. When our Constitution talks about freedom of speech, it includes ALL legal forms of speech, not just the convenient and non-offensive variety.
24	R. Sharma on Friday, August 03, 2007 : The Problem of the M.S University was due to obscenity. If you think it is OK to provoke the Muslims, then what is wrong with Fida Hussain, who is provoking Hindus?
23	Om Y. Gosh on Thursday, August 02, 2007 : R. Sharma: The students, as I said earlier, would certainly have to follow Univeristy rules. Still, the system remains imperfect. Allow me to illustrate -- Can a student paint the face of a man? Sure, why not. Now what if the student titled the painting "Mohammed"? Problematic, yeah?
22	R. Sharma on Thursday, August 02, 2007 : University"s rules and regulations do not allow obscenity or blasphamy. No student is allowed to do what he likes. It is not matter of likes or dislikes. Society must have certain rules, otherwise there will be anarchy.
21	Om Y. Gosh on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 : R. Sharma: The students DO have a right to paint whatever they like, subject to the University"s rules and regulations. I don"t have to like it, you see. That"s the whole point.
20	R. Sharma on Sunday, July 29, 2007 : If you have illusion about the British/Americans forget it. They hate us. I used to stay in Britain as a student. I have direct experience. Those Indians who are living in Britain/US just for money are living in hell for just money. They gain nothing else. They kill themselves in their heart. Their personality get degenerated, they start hating their country, their own religion and ultimately they become Bobby Jindal, Dinesh D-Souza, Mira Nayar, Meghnad Desai, and journalists of The Statesman, The Hindu, Frontline, Times of India, and Indian Prime-Minister.
19	R. Sharma on Sunday, July 29, 2007 : Why should we imitate the British or Americans??? Christians in UK say openly ( I have heard personally) that Krishna and Buddha were devils. Henry Kissinger said, Indians are all bastards. What more do you want. If you have illusion about the British/Americans forget it. They hate us. I used to stay in Britain as a student. I have direct experience. Those Indians who are living in Britain/US just for money are living in hell for just money. They gain nothing else. They kill themselves in their heart. Their personality get degerated, they start hating their country, their own religion and ultimately they becaome Bobby Jindal, Dinesh D-Souza, Mira Nayar, Meghnad Desai, and journalists of The Statesman, The Hindu, Frontline, Times of India, and Indian Prime-Minister.
18	R. Sharma on Sunday, July 29, 2007 : Om.Y.Gosh: In your case, the student in MS University in Boroda or Fida Hussain have every right to paint whatever they like, because the viewers have the choice not to see those pictures. How do you like it?
17	Om Y. Gosh on Friday, July 27, 2007 : "Censor board should be composed of academics and religious people who are the guardian of our society" How about letting each individual viewer decide whether he or she wants to watch something or not? Why this urge to control what others can or cannot watch? Morality is highly subjective. Picture of a woman with an uncovered head is perfectly normal for some, whereas blasphemous to others. Whose morality are you going to pick?
16	R. Sharma on Friday, July 27, 2007 : Most poor are poor to have a culture, so we are really talking about the Middle class including lower middle class Indian.
15	S.Ghosh on Friday, July 27, 2007 : Culture in India is maintained by the poor. The rich have no culture, they imitate the West always. They look like crows with white artificial feathers.
14	V.Mironi on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : Now we have a vulgar demonstration of wealth by the sons of very rich people the business community, who have no education or culture but loaded with money. Most people, I think 90 percent, of the population in India are either poor or just about survive. The other 10 percent are enjoying everything. What culture do they promote, a culture of drunkenness, driving Sumo, abusing people and molesting girls.
13	V.Mironi on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : Criminalization of Indian politics means there is no role model. If a suspected criminal can be the President, what example that would provide for the children. They can see those who are most uncultured, uneducated, thugs, criminals, they can be mega-rich like Lallu Yadav or Mayawati or Sharad Powar. But at the same time educated people can just survive.
12	S.Ghosh on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : There are not many among the politicians who are cultured. Lallu Yadav spiting in public is not a great demonstration of culture. So you get Daler Mahendi.
11	S.Ghosh on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : If we have Blasphamy law just like Britain, Fida Hussain and those artists from MS University in Baroda can be put inside jail.
10	A.Moron on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : All over the world there are laws regarding obscenity and blasphamy. In India these laws are not being implemented. That is the reason Fida Hussain got away. even in Britain Fida Hussain can be prosecuted. In India the Government did nothing against him.
9	A.Moron on Thursday, July 26, 2007 : All over the world there are laws regarding obscenity and blasphamy. In India these laws are not being implemented. That is the reason Fida Hussain got away.
8	S.Ghosh on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 : Censor board should be composed of academics and religious people who are the guardian of our society, not the politicians. At present censor board is full of people from the Film industry and media who are the very people who provoke the sensual aspects with semi-pornography and claim that nudity and sex are essential aspects of modern culture. There is a law in Economics: Bad money drives out good money out of circulation. That is true also in TV programmes. Young people do not want to watch religious programme they want to watch pornography. Young people do not want to drink fruit juice or coconut water but Cola Cola, Whisky or at least country wine. That is the reason restrictions are needed. If you allow complete freedom then you get the kind of paintings that student in MS university in Boroda has painted.
7	Om Y. Gosh on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 : Why have a censor board at all? Who decides what"s objectionable? A bunch of politicians? The hallmark of a Free society is the ability to express one"s views, regardless of how unpopular such view may be. What"s indecent for one guy is perfectly fine for another. And about these people saying "private TV channels are showing pornography and provoking youth to molest women" -- why, there are channels showing good religious programming. Why aren"t THOSE channels "provoking youth" to stop "molesting women"? Lame liberals. Always want to escape personal responsibility.
6	S.Ghosh on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : What I cannot understand is why was it neccessary for India to relax the censorship rules along with economic reforms in 1991. It seems to me there is no link, but in reality the pornography etc have started since 1991.
5	A.Moron on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : Cable TV is really bad. After midnight they show blue films in cable channels. As a result rape is becoming as common in India as it is in USA. Women even little girls cannot go out in the evening or in parks during the daylight.
4	V.Mironi on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : It is better if our youth would learn not from the West but from Singapore and Japan. They have imitated all the good things from the West without losing their own culture. Our youth are not interested in Hinduism, as they study in convent schools and learn only about Christian religion and start hating their own religion.
3	Truth Speaks on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : I agree with views of R. Sharma and A.Moron on this. Most of Indian youths are learning only bad stuff(binge booze, pornography, drugs, unnatural stuff, crime, violence and what not?) from west, but ignoring the good stuff of west (traffic discipline, respecting other"s privacy, punctuality, self help etc). Every society has good and bad stuff. Unfortunately, our politicians and youth are taking only bad stuff from other societies.
2	A.Moron on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : Urban youth of India flashed with money have no culture at all, they imitate everything Western, even the culture of the black Americans. Censor board is not doing anything when private TV channels are showing pornography and provoking youth to molest women
1	R. Sharma on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : English language newspapers in India along with the TV media are promoting a very anti-Indian culture. Times of India is the prime example.
1

Art and Culture of a Debased Society - Thread over

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	Ashurbanipal on Monday, July 28, 2008 : Slave PM is least concerned about Pakis. In fact, shortly after UPA"s formation, the idiot Natwar had proposed a "Common Nuclear doctrine" with Pakis. At the same time, Americans were actually considering Mani Shankar Aiyer"s paki oil pipeline idea....

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S.Ghosh on Thursday, July 24, 2008 : It is difficult to trust American friendship or any American company. India has lost possibly about $400 Million for ENRON, but no electricity was produced. UNION CARBIDE never paid compensations to the thousands who got killed in Bhupal. In every cr....

R.Sharma on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 : For KishanKB: Madras Institute of Technology, which used to Madras Polytechnic, was a private enginering college. Kalam got BSc from a private Christian College, then did a Diploma in Enginerring from Madras Polytechnic. He never had a PhD.

R.Sharma on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 : I think most Indians would not mind an alliance with USA, if it is honest but not a trick of some sort. However, most Indians will not like to give up nuclear weapons just to have a few more nuclear plants in Tamil Nadu. Unfortunately, most MPs do n....

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Comments (till the day of this story)

R. Sharma on Saturday, August 04, 2007 : Disturbing implications of the 123 Agreement [2 comments]

Given the enthusiatic response of the Indian media, and the political parties, there is no patriot left in India among the chattering classes, who control India. Ordinary Indians are being deceived by these people.

R. Sharma on Friday, August 03, 2007 : "India got more than what N-weapons states get" [1 comments]

This is a total lie. india is now a non-nuclear state. It will not be allowed to have any testing, any diversion of enriched uranium or plutonium for FBRs for nuclear weapons, these are all under IAEA contrls. India"s position is no better than that of Ukraine or South africe but much worse than Pakistan or Israel.

R. Sharma on Friday, August 03, 2007 : Indo-US nuclear deal valid for 40 years [1 comments]

So for the next 40 years India cannot have nuclear weapons, otherwise Americans will take back everything.

R. Sharma on Friday, August 03, 2007 : "123 agreement addresses most concerns" [2 comments]

Slaves will say so.

S.Ghosh on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 : Religious conversion bill returned [1 comments]

Of Course the Governor is afaird to lose his job.

Truth Speaks on Monday, July 30, 2007 : Rs 50k cr plan to make Mumbai world-class city [2 comments]

R.Sharma, Why do you hate somebody or some group? You don"t like everything going to Mumbai only, then just say that. Why do you have to call "racist Marathis"? I am not a Marathi, but felt hurt by your comments. I very much like your reasonable comments, not this one.

R. Sharma on Sunday, July 29, 2007 : Ram Sethu not man made, says NASA [8 comments]

This is a false report by this media. NASA said clearly it has nothing to say whether it is man-made or not. It made no judegement either way. It is impossible from the sky to determine that. Only geological investigation can determine that.

Truth Speaks on Friday, July 27, 2007 : 2-month old Goa govt collapses, 5 MLAs quit [2 comments]

In the last election, the Churches in Goa officially supported Congress as Congress chief is Christian and most of the Christians voted strategically to defeat BJP. EC did nothing when the voting was done COMMUNALLY. Hindus don"t do that. Moreover, Hindus votes divide on the basis of caste.

Truth Speaks on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 : First Dalit CJ to swear in first woman Prez [1 comments]

First Dalit, First Woman, First Muslim. This is all media trash. For President and PM posts, we need most qualified and clean candidates like Dr.Kalam. Not the corrupts and weaks like Pratibha and Puppet Manmohan.

Chinnaraj on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 : Urban mission may not arrest migration [1 comments]

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Art and Culture of a Debased Society

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